Daneel | Video

[thezerothlaw]

I must say that I have found the process of dreaming to be an interesting experience. I did not think that once I had returned to my normal state after having been human I would be able to experience it again, though other people's dreams was not something I anticipated.

[Daneel's manner is, as always, solemn, but he seems to have a certain extra weight to his words today. He has a serious matter to address.]

To anyone whose dreams I may have intruded upon, I beg your pardon.

[With that out of the way, he straightens.]

I have always considered humanity to be something other than myself, and something greater. There are a number of traits I have thought myself incapable of, but now I am not certain of that. A redefinition is necessary. I have an important question, and if anyone can spare the time to answer it, I would greatly appreciate it.

Namely, how would you define a sentient being that could be referred to as a person?

Comments

[burnburnburn]

There's no point in asking most people here that, they've never lived in worlds with more than humans in. If you're not human but you can think, you're one of the 'kin. What were your ancestors before they could think?

[thezerothlaw]

I believe this is a misunderstanding. I had no ancestors, except in the figurative sense. I am not organic at all, but a robot, though one designed to appear as human as possible.

[burnburnburn]

So you're a Robotkin.

[Mystery solved, his civic duty has been done]

Don't call yourself human if you weren't born human, even if you're meant to mimic one. That's the sort of lie that makes you look like you can't be trusted. But if you can think, then you're another tribe like us, so you ought to name yourself as one of the kin and be proud.

[thezerothlaw]

[This is an incredibly confusing answer, as far as Daneel is concerned.]

"Robotkin" implies there would be more of me, and there is not, not exactly, not unless I were to build other robots like myself.

I am more concerned with whether I can be considered a person if I was created by humans.

[burnburnburn]

There you go, if you ever want to multiply you'll be the founder of your tribe.

If you've mind enough to ask what you are, then you've got mind enough to be a person. Getting into if your body makes you more or less a person than another tribe's is what leads to slavery and the nastier types of war.

[thezerothlaw]

[He needs to process this. Daneel is quiet for a moment, just thinking. He's never thought of himself as a slave, but if all robots are people... the implications are unpleasant. He would never lead a revolution, but he'd already determined that robots aren't good for humanity.]

Thank you. That is... helpful. You have experience with individuals who are people and yet not human, I presume?

[burnburnburn]

There's over a hundred tribes known on Gaia. A lot of them keep to their own villages, but some live in human cities too. I've worked with dogkin and catkin in the army.

What exactly is a robot, anyway? Who created you?

[thezerothlaw]

[Of all the people he's met, this is the first time Daneel's met someone who doesn't even know what a robot is.]

A robot is a mechanical creation, a machine possessing a positronic brain and with the ability to think. Some are admittedly very simplistic, and most do not appear to be human. I was created by Dr. Han Fastolfe and Dr. Roj Nemennuh Sarton as a prototype of humaniform robots -- that is, a robot that has the full appearance of humanity.

[burnburnburn]

[He looks intrigued]

So you're a guymelef with a brain... the only human-formed machines we have on Gaia need to be piloted by people. If the Sorcerers in my world worked out how to make robotkin like you I'd be out of a job.

[thezerothlaw]

[Even if the word 'guymelef' is entirely unfamiliar, the implication is clear enough. He's known, too, for humans to become uneasy, tense, violent at the prospect of robots taking their jobs.]

Perhaps. Does the idea distress you? I would imagine there are certain tasks a directly-controlled construct are more suited for than a robot.

[burnburnburn]

[He gives it just a moment of thought before a cocky grin forms on his face. He shakes his head]

Your kind might turn out better than the average soldier, but no one can build pure talent. If they managed to build your kind on Gaia, my job will be the last to go. Even then, they'll still need human leaders to think like the enemy does. The worst that'll happen is you'll replace the chaff.

[thezerothlaw]

Perhaps, yes. I have been told I think remarkably like a human being, but not exactly. May I ask what field you work in?

[burnburnburn]

Maybe, but you talk like a foreigner. You're correct, but you speak like you learnt language from a book instead of growing up with the tongue.

I'm a soldier, a guymelef pilot. They're the most likely candidate for brains if the Sorcerers ever decided to make them, but they're four times the size of humans and designed for function, not to mimic humans exactly.

[thezerothlaw]

I should attempt to adjust my choice in words, then.

[Is that a weakness? Perhaps, if he is to ever need to pretend to be human on a regular basis -- which he will, if he returns home -- he should practice a more natural mode of speech.]

I see. There are certainly many tasks such a large construction would be able to accomplish that a more traditional robot would be unable to. What are guymelefs used for?

[burnburnburn]

War. They're used for construction and mining too, but the best use for them is in battle.

[thezerothlaw]

[An uncomfortable spasm passes over his face.]

Robots are not permitted to harm humans.

[burnburnburn]

The guymelefs are just the bodies. It's the people who pilot them who're the brains.

[thezerothlaw]

[It's still troubling, even with that knowledge. Worlds with robots don't, can't have armed conflict.]

No robot will take your position from you, sir, except to eliminate entirely.

[burnburnburn]

[He narrows his eyes]

Eliminate what entirely?

[thezerothlaw]

Your job, or at least the need for it.

[Too much interference causes humanity to stagnate, he knows that, but all the same, this upsets him.]

Your guymelefs are likely very useful, but warfare should be avoided whenever possible.

[burnburnburn]

Oh, we'll make sure we avoid it in the future by defeating our enemies now. I was taken from what ought to be the decisive battle.

[thezerothlaw]

Decisive in what way? Was your enemy about to surrender? Would you show them mercy?

[burnburnburn]

Mercy's just an excuse for people who don't have the stomach to see the job through to the end.

[He rolls his eyes at bleeding-heart pansies]

But I'm not in charge of negotiations. The diplomats will sort out some sort of surrender, since we need our neighbour's trade. As for why we're at the decisive point, that's classified, but I know the end would have come before nightfall.

[thezerothlaw]

[Dilandau's bloodthirsty nature makes Daneel intensely uncomfortable. This, he thinks, is an individual to watch, if this is his attitude towards mercy, towards his opponents.]

You say yourself you need your enemy's trade. Mercy is the only logical course of action, if eliminating them would harm you as well.

[He'll try logic; it's all he really has to argue with.]

[burnburnburn]

[He doesn't seem to mark the wariness. People should be wary of him and know they ought not to challenge him]

If it was up to me I'd execute everyone who raised a blade against my army and leave the civilians to do the trading instead. They'll be the more docile ones and without their armies they wouldn't dare riot. They'd see the advantage of living under Zaibach's rule within a generation.